Tuesday, March 16, 2010



Copied from FB Forum with comments threads below:
Tuesday, March 16, 2010 at 9:32pm

Bhagavan wrote:

Fernando, Jagannath, MM - the triggers to these interesting communications....

and to all the others, who in response to being triggered, offered their years of personal realizations....

....thank you.

We know that bringing things to closure when closure is needed is a life skill we all strive to acquire. Releasing and letting go- whether it be a relationship, a thought form, our bodies or a communication- at the right time, allows us to assimilate, confirm or alter who we are. As we all learned well, we are individuals forever. Merging, although one possibility, comes second to being an illuminated individual-forever.

So the idea is not to 'preach' to someone to make them merge, think or be like you because you have the 'chosen philosophy' with the chosen guru and the chosen movement with the chosen hierarchy. The idea is not to define someone in imaginary thought forms- he is a karmi, women are less intelligent, you are fallen as I define you, you are humble as I define you,

and further, I can tell you if you love God or not.

I am not trying to convince anyone to see things or think like I do. I am just responding to many who wanted to communicate after a long time of being away. Some of us think very much along the same lines others obviously don't. Observe don't judge. Judgment gives a weak strength and doesn't allow flexibility- a high trait of the yoga system-learning how to stretch and not to get stuck in form.

We have all learned, that if you love someone you see them everywhere and feel them everywhere. Is that trying to love the Universal Form? Love is inclusive and moves you to share and exchange. The movie "Hatchi", Fernando, is a beautiful, true story about the depths of loyalty, separation and focus. All good things for bhakti yogis to assimilate. Or are you above learning from our animal brothers Fernando?
Perhaps if we both keep moving, one day we'll be more connected.
Yes, to many, love includes everything from rituals to love making. Who is anyone to say you are not allowed to bring the Source of pleasure into loving acceptance, especially when there is no abuse of power? Who can judge that loving balance can't be obtained or has to be defined by another?

So here's some final words for you and me from the sadhus “ABBA”: another aspect of the Universal Form:

"There was something in the air that night,
The stars were bright, Fernando
They were shining there for you and me
For liberty-Fernando"

Jagannatha you say you are taking the role of the devil's advocate. The advocate, by his chosen profession, is close to the client. So it is understandable why you always sound the way you do. I never heard Prabhupada speak as you speak.
You probably think the same about me.....

So thank you all, Fernando, Jagannath.... For now we have heard from each other and we will find our own light from it. Perhaps we can follow the thread again sometime in the future.

To all of you Vaish, Calle, Alexis, Veda, Priya, Guru et al - thank you. It has been enlightening to know your minds.

Comments thread:

Charles Sullivan
Thank you for this loving, articulate, liberating discourse.

"Thou hast made us for Thine own," wrote Augustine, "and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee."

The Psalmist wrote, "Lord, if you should mark iniquities, who would stand?"... See More

Or, as an old hymn says,
"With grateful joy and holy fear,
His charity we learn.
Let us with heart and mind and soul
Now love Him in return."
March 17 at 7:56am ·

Fernando Rodriguez Torres

So I'm so impressed about your meaningful contact with the Greater One. You see... you have been able to understand that my name is Fernando and then that there is that song called Fernando so your brilliant neuronal connections with the Absolute were able to join both things and catch the deeper meaning aand bring me the illumination, thanks, now I'm your servant and a soul surrendered to you.

The more you speak the less respect I feel for you.

Bye bye,
March 17 at 11:12am ·

Alexis Kriel
I got quite a lot out of the words of that song ...I guess it's how you look at it.
March 17 at 11:34am ·

Fernando Rodriguez Torres
March 17 at 11:35am ·

Alexis Kriel
comon Fernando - lighten up ;)
March 17 at 11:37am ·

Veda Sastra
The song was ...wow for some weird reason I was singing it while driving a few days ago ...just out of the blue.
It must have been Fernando in my mind ...he he
March 17 at 2:23pm ·

Alexis Kriel
What Bhagavan has done - by opening up this forum for discussison - was to resolve his past relationships with honesty. It is an opportunity to talk to the real person, to reconcile oneself and find closure - as he has mentioned above.

The persona of Bhagavan Gurudev - that supported our fantasy's of "the happy ending" was our illusion, our desperate attempt to believe in fairy tales....again.

I personally am very grateful to have de-mystified the illusion and to have a chance to have a relationship with a real person. What an unselfish thing to have done. ... See More

This doesn't minimise him as a great person or a great devotee. If we want him back as the illusion, to return as he was - then we are looking to be cheated again. We are asking to be cheated again. We want him to be a mirage - a walking talking, charasmatic personified piece of scripture, beautiful yet mysterious, always reciting, singing sweetly, rocking us gently ....allowing us to escape from the realities of life.

Put the book down and live a real life. Make your philosophies work day-by-day and prove that they are the means and the end. Not just a "post-dated" cheque.

"There was something in the air that night,
The stars were bright, Fernando
They were shining there for you and me
For liberty-Fernando"
March 18 at 4:40am ·

Veda Sastra
I think Bhagavan' s presence and re-appearance is a significant part of a plan and not just a de-mystification of an idol even though there are elements of this as well.

When the spiritual master appears in any form is to conduct a purpose .Now Bhagavan belonged to a line of authentic acharyas and delivered the message successfully so his presence cannot have been that illusory or his merits cheating or fairy tale devices.

In fact ,the same merits compounded (let's not forget that it was not all singing and smiles)with great philosophical insight acted in a catalytic manner to attract people who might not have been attracted to KC had the circumstances been different while at the same time offering them options ....

Taking myself for example and could be others who feel the same way of those who apparently left the movement ,
Bhagavan drew a circle of protection around us something like Lord Ramachandra to mother Sita .

This circle was reiforced by the instructions of previous acharyas and his spiritual master so it was potent and fortified ,it was not illusory ,it worked.

Now ,this is a circle it is not a dot ,it allows for some movement some exercise of free will .His absence gave span to free will to act further making some devotees deepen their commitment while allowing others to get some air from the suppresed environment and act of their own thus making the expansion of the limits possible .

His re-appearance only verifies this point ,he came to check on the circle ,how much it can hold ,how much it endures so he can also clarify the role that he played by checking input from all of us which will further his spiritual life as well.
March 18 at 1:03pm ·

Alexis Kriel
Nice understanding Veda Sastra. I needed to slightly re-word my entry above. What I wanted to say is don't try and put him back where you think he belongs.
March 18 at 1:36pm ·

Veda Sastra
I understood it better after I re-read your entry ,dear basically we say the same thing .
March 18 at 1:51pm ·

Veda Sastra
By the way Alexis I love the way you express your emotions so openly and freely .
March 18 at 2:01pm ·

Alexis Kriel
Thanks friend - What would there be to hide ;) XX
March 18 at 2:15pm ·

Priya Sakhi
hope to hear a litle from Bhagavan again
March 20 at 4:57am

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